Washington Post columnist Gene Weingarten created this printout after witnessing "a tall, elegant man of the cloth become a frothing, muttering, sputtering maniac when a woman reclined into his knees." Perhaps Mr. Weingarten's creativity can help reduce the relentlessly spreading plague of air rage across the planet — or at least keep it focused on those dickish flight attendants. Download and print several copies before your next miserable, demoralizing adventure in the sky.
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Cardioid | 11/02/2011 flag |
How about this? As opposed to selfishly insisting that no one ever uses the reclining function of airplane seats and/or selfishly reclining your seat abruptly or in a smug or entitled way, why not practice actual human courtesy and simply agree that people should ASK or give fair warning that they will be reclining their seats?
It seems the question of whether or not it is "courteous" to recline on an airplane has more to do with the way you go about it than anything else. If you simply turn to the person behind you and ask them if they mind, I think you are doing your due diligence to behave in a considerate manner. It also gives the person behind you the opportunity to recline their seat as well or switch seats with someone shorter or less claustrophobic.
This reminds me so much of an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. -
Christopher | 08/02/2011 flag |
@Alex - as it happens (and maybe this is just me), the typical design for the seat pocket (where the in-flight magazine lives) has a thick metal wire that, when the seat is reclined, ends up smack in the middle of my kneecaps. Apply a few hundred pounds of pressure via a piece of metal for two hours (or longer), and even a kick-boxer's kneecaps will get bruised. Not broken glass and razor blades, but enough to cause damage. And, really, I should be tougher than a kick-boxer to fly coach?
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Alex | 08/02/2011 flag |
Bruised kneecaps? Kickboxers break skulls with their knees, but based on the comments here you'd think that the backs of seats were covered with broken glass and razor blades.
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Ben | 08/01/2011 flag |
Don't be sorry JB, I want to recline my seat too.
It is easier for me to not recline b/c I decided for myself to not recline where in this forum it perhaps feels like other's are telling you what to do. I don't think I can change anyone's mind, people need to decide for themselves. -
Christopher | 08/01/2011 flag |
@JB remember, even if you recline slowly and apologize, if the person behind you is tall, you're still causing him pain. An apology isn't going to do much to alleviate the physical discomfort, even if you're polite about it, as my bruised knee caps can attest.
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J. B. Rainsberger | 08/01/2011 flag |
Sorry, folks; I sleep on flights. When I sleep, I recline. I recline slowly and safely, not abruptly and painfully, and that's about the best I can do. I try to fly business class as much as I can, but when I fly coach, I sleep, and I recline. I apologise. I don't see what's unreasonable about that.
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Christopher | 07/31/2011 flag |
@anna - you're thinking about seatguru.com, which is indeed an excellent resource. Unfortunately, sometimes the only seats that would suit are reserved for premium frequent fliers, and plane configurations can be changed at the last minute (different equipment, etc.).
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annabananasplit | 07/31/2011 flag |
Well, I have rheumatoid arthritis and sitting in one upright position for even an hour's flight is painful and may weaken my back to the point where I can't walk well nor carry small bag, which messes up my entire trip, not just the plane ride. I try to recline a little as possible, enough so I'm not in spasms.
Perhaps instead of griping and sniping at one another, we can ask an attendent's help in re-locating a person who needs to recline in front of someone not bothered by sitting behind a reclined seat. I've been pleasantly surprised at how willing strangers on a plane are to accomodate a hurting person who requests politely and sincerely, with no expectation of a positive response. A few minutes of musical seats can spare hours of frustration and discomfort.
Also, you can now pick a seat online--pick yourself a seat with no seat in front of it...there's a website that rates the comfortability and warns of problem seats. (some don't recline; some offer extra leg room) Grab a seat that suits you when you buy your ticket. Can't recall name of site but it came up last time I booked a flight and really did help. -
Christopher | 07/31/2011 flag |
@Alex: A quick Google search shows that 10% of adult males in the US are 6' 1" or taller, a height that guarantees discomfort in a coach seat, even with the seat in front not reclined. Do you really think that 10% of the (male) public should not fly unless they can afford to sit in the front of the plane? You're right that flying isn't an entitlement (and would someone please tell this to parents who fly with toddlers?). But if I'm not freakishly large, I do think I'm entitled to fly in a standard seat without being subjected to unnecessary pain. I don't think that makes me selfish.
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Alex | 07/31/2011 flag |
I know how to drive. I use the passing lane for it's supposed to be used for. I would never text in a movie theater. Those behaviors are rude and unacceptable - putting your seat back is not. And if that 5-10 degrees really causes you that much pain, maybe you should consider an alternative mode of transportation, or, and here's a novel idea: not flying at all. It's not like you have to, it's only been a few decades of privilege that have entitled you to believe that air travel is a some sacred right and that everyone should do it the way that will maximize your comfort.
And, actually, those 5-10 degrees matter greatly. I can sleep reclined, and planes are a great place for me to catch up on that sleep. There's little hope of me sleeping with my chair erect, unless I want an extremely painful neck as my head lolls forward, far more painful that your apparently extremely delicate legs. -
Ben | 07/31/2011 flag |
Will, did you not write: "it's a terrible loss that we have a society where everyone is concerned for only themselves" . . . did you mean to write "it's terrible loss that we have a society where everyone is concerned for only themselves except when on an airplane b/c I like to put my seat back"? And really, you are excited b/c your convictions are in line with the airlines? You must be so proud.
Alex, you can rationalize your behavior as much as you want. You can also drive slow in the passing lane and talk and text in a movie theater. Just don't be surprised or complain when the people around you end up being jerks as well.
And both of you . . . the amount you can recline is nothing to you and everything to the person behind you. That 5-10 degrees does not turn your seat into a heavenly bed but physically hurts the person behind you. Know that . . . and do what you will.
For the civil people on this board, I think there is value when someone puts their seat back. Sometimes it is hard to tell who the jerks of world are until they show us. -
Alex | 07/31/2011 flag |
I don't have to look "deep down inside" to "know right from wrong." Nor do I feel guilty about reclining my seat back the paltry ten or so degrees that they allow. The only one who should feel guilty is a person who wants to maximize their comfort by getting an entire plane of passengers to ignore their own. The only thing worse is the passive aggressive note written to that effect.
I have a plane flight tomorrow - I can't wait to put my seat back. -
WillfromSF | 07/31/2011 flag |
Ben, your holier-than-thou attitude over this small-to-petty issue is wearing thin. I don't agree with your position (ha-ha) so why should I have to assuume your convictions. Apparently the airlines don't either. It's been fun, but I'm out of here.
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Ben | 07/30/2011 flag |
Will, convictions only matter when we stick to them when it is not convenient.
Alex, were you stomping your feet while you were typing? I actually have hope for you . . . you would not respond like that unless you felt a little guilt . . . maybe deep down inside you know right from wrong. Sometimes the right thing to do sucks for you. -
Sara | 07/30/2011 flag |
I'm a relatively tall woman (5'10"...and yes, that's cramped on a normal airplane, I really feel for anyone taller, including my husband!). In my opinion, the only time to recline is flights on which one would generally assume the majority of passengers would be sleeping (e.g. a transatlantic overnight flight). Everyone else is reclined and then it sort of works. My issue (and therefore it is the time I would consider using this print-out) would be short domestic flights where people immediately recline after take off. Why do you need to be in my lap for a 2 hour mid-day flight down the east coast?!? I'd like to be able to use my lap top, perhaps have a drink and set it on a level tray table, or generally have use of my legs during these few hours.
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Alex | 07/30/2011 flag |
And exactly how are we supposed to get anything resembling sleep without reclining? Should we all stay fully upright and awake for YOUR comfort? This request is the most selfish POS I've ever heard: 'everyone do what I like so that I can be most comfortable, nevermind your comfort.'
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WillfromSF | 07/30/2011 flag |
By the way, Ben, I'm 6'3". I don't like it when someone in front of me puts their seat back, but I also like to recline a little myself during part of the flight, particularly the longer ones. The seats don't recline that much any more, maybe 5-10 degrees. BTW, I'm as courteous as they come and usually go out of my way to help others whether I know them or not. I grew up at a time when people were much more considerate of others around them than they are today and I think it's a terrible loss that we have a society where everyone is concerned for only themselves. So I was offended by your remark. I just happen to disagree with you about not having seats recline at all.
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WillfromSF | 07/30/2011 flag |
Ben...in the nicest way I can say it...you're full of shit.
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Ben | 07/29/2011 flag |
@will . . . in the nicest way I can say it . . . if there were fewer people in the world that think like you . . . what a wonderful world it could be.
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WillfromSF | 07/29/2011 flag |
There is a reason seats recline and that is to help passengers to relax and get some sleep. So no, I don't go along with this. But the best defense is an offense - so when someone does it to you, you do the same to the person behind you and then you can blame it on the person in front of you.
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Christopher | 07/29/2011 flag |
@shannon: does your seatmate leaving the light on cause you physical pain? Do you end up with bruises if it happens? Huge difference.
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Ben | 07/29/2011 flag |
@Shannon: Good for you, you're starting to get it! Yes, if you were sleeping, as a civil person, I would try to not wake you if turning on my light might do so.
And please read my post below, the goal of my FB group is to influence the airlines . . . just need enough like minded civil people to rise up, make a stand against the airlines (and the sheep). -
Shannon | 07/29/2011 flag |
This is ridiculous. Maybe your time would be better spent petitioning the airlines to remove the ability to recline rather than complaining to and calling rude those who utilize a feature given to us.
It bugs me when you have your light on when I'm trying to relax. Should nobody be allowed to use the lights? -
Christopher | 07/29/2011 flag |
To all the (I'm guessing shorter than average) people who say that the solution for tall people is just to recline their seats, let me explain: it doesn't work that way. The pitch between seats is the same distance as the length of your thighbone plus the thickness of the seat, plus, if you have shorter legs, any free space. Reclining the back of the seat doesn't increase this distance. If my knees are already touching the back of your seat, reclining my seat does not offer any relief. It just increases the angle between my torso and my legs. My knees are still jammed against the back of your seat, which you have just reclined, further compressing my knees/legs/lower back. I'm only 6' 2", and the average coach seat is barely tolerable for short flights if the seat in front of me is not reclined. If someone insists on reclining, I'm in agony.
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Bobman | 07/29/2011 flag |
@Freely Reclining : it's very simple. You are doing something that you know makes someone else uncomfortable simply for your own comfort. That's the definition of inconsiderate at the very least, and one could argue rude. Yes it is your right to do it, but that doesn't make it considerate or thoughtful.
Plenty of things exist in the world whose mere existence does not justify their use. The ringtone on your phone can go up to a maximum level but it's rude to put it that way at a funeral. It's rude to drive through a neighborhood at night with your stereo all the way up, even though "someone put a radio in your car with a volume knob that goes all the way."
Using your own judgement and thinking of other people before, or at least at the same time as, yourself is what makes you human. Do wtih that information what you want. -
Ben | 07/29/2011 flag |
@freelyreclining, I know you can understand if you will only read my words. Your theory requires me to recline b/c someone else did. Perhaps I am working and prefer to be upright? Perhaps I am with a child that I am trying to engage with or a lap baby? Or maybe I just don't want to recline b/c I am in a nutty mood. No, to recline in general is not rude. To pretend you are not effecting other's is a lack of civility. And just b/c there is a button at your side does not require you to push it . . . for that would make us . . . you know . . . sheep.
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Sharon | 07/29/2011 flag |
Actually, it is rude if you have long legs like my husband. His jam up against the seat and hurt when someone tries to recline......
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Freely reclining | 07/29/2011 flag |
I never have and never will understand this. If my reclining takes too much of your space, then feel free to recline your seat also. If reclining is such a sin, why do the seats even have that function? Reclining feels good, why don't we all do it and enjoy the flight a little more. If you're so unlucky as to be in a fixed seat at the back (bad on the airlines for that one in the fist place) then get your tickets and check in earlier, or it's your own fault. Reclining in and of itself is not rude.
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Ben | 07/29/2011 flag |
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=53013468658
Reclining my seat at the expense of the person behind me is not a progressive solution. Civility is the only solution. -
Sharon | 07/29/2011 flag |
Reclining your own seat back as well does not help. My husband is 6'3" with long legs. To sit on a plane, his legs are jammed all the way up to the seat in front. If someone tries to recline, it is impossible for them and they try over and over, bumping his knees quite rudely.......nevermind what happens to my 6'6" nephew!
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flora | 07/28/2011 flag |
Here's a crazy idea, make more room for yourself by reclining YOUR seat back also.
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Ben | 07/28/2011 flag |
I have a FB group called "People Who Think People Who Put Their Seat Back on an Airplane are Jerks" . . . and our goal is to convince airlines to eliminate the option. Please join us! Civility!
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Meg | 07/28/2011 flag |
Actually, the "civil" way to deal with this is to either suck it up and cope or to tap the person gently on the shoulder and politely ask if they could recline just a tiny bit less, being fully prepared to take "no" for an answer. Not civil? Handing them a NOTE, when you're sitting RIGHT BEHIND THEM. For Pete's sake.
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Bobman | 07/27/2011 flag |
You are not a "victim" of anything, Mr. Weingarten. Get a little perspective. You're able to afford to fly semi-regularly, I would consider myself lucky and maybe just grin and bear the most modest of discomforts for a few hours.
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KiaKam | 07/27/2011 flag |
If this dickwad doesn't want the person in front of him to recline his seat, then he should BUY that seat, or fly first class. Otherwise, he should go eat a DIIIICK.
